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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After speaking by phone to the service manager of my dealership on Dec. 3 about the fuel dilution issue on the GLA250 and forwarding them the latest oil analysis (see http://www.glaowners.com/forum/engine-technical-discussion/13210-oil-analysis-8-critical-severe.html ), I was told several times I would hear from someone with MB. After receiving no call, letter or email from MB, I emailed the dealership service manager on Dec. 22 and asked when I could bring the car in to have the problem corrected. I received this response:

"You want to bring your car in to have a problem corrected that has not been deemed a problem by Mercedes so therefore we would not know how to proceed. We cannot simply go by what an independent laboratory finds with the sample you provided to them and we do not send samples to MB for analysis."

I was not the least surprised to hear that. If someone can read anything positive into that statement please share it with me. And it set the stage for things to come.

Of course I immediately wrote a letter to the owner of the dealership expressing my dismay and belief that they should press MB into some action. I also sent a copy of the letter to MB USA Customer Assistance Center. It didn't take long for the dealership's general manager to call me to apologize for being told such a thing and asked to bring the car in for an inspection. An MB representative also called from New Jersey to said she had spoken with the owner and general manager and to rest assured my problem was being taken seriously. I held out a small glimmer of hope for a resolution.

I dropped the car off at the dealership on Dec. 31 and spoke at length with the general manager and technician who would be working on the car. I got a call on Jan. 6 informing me the dealership had performed testing per MB. As listed on the service invoice, the testing set out from MB consisted of smelling the oil that was in the crankcase (which had been changed only 700 miles earlier) and an SDS guided compression test followed by changing the oil and filter, measuring the oil level with a shop dipstick (PN# 120 589 07 21), driving the car 100 miles on the interstate and measuring the oil level again. They then declared there was no fuel dilution to the oil and that no further repair or diagnostics were called for.

If you have read my other thread about fuel dilution (see http://www.glaowners.com/forum/engi...fuel-dilution-oil-analysis-mercedes-benz.html ) you should know immediately why I think MB's "test" was farcical. To add insult to injury, they even made me pay for the oil change.

This doesn't really give me a warm, fuzzy feeling about MB's desire to deal with this issue. Looks more like denial and obfuscation to me. Guess it is time for a scathing letter to MB USA and to get prepared for a lot of hogwash.

I am really loving all this MB culture and lifestyle.
 

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The fuel dilution threads have been interesting.

So basically MB is taking the position "if it ain't broke they can't fix it".

Looks like it has become an exhaustive personal project to get to the bottom of the suspected excessive oil dilution.

As a premium brand MB will give a customer plenty of attention and compassion but here's the likely outcome: In the end MB is not going to do anything about it.

With all due respect it might be advisable to trade the car for something you can be comfortable with and avoid the ongoing escalating aggravation with MB - unless of course the ongoing battle is an enjoyable challenge.
 

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Its probably best to get rid of the car and take your money elsewhere, big corporations just don't care. You can take to social media, call local news? maybe.

I really doubt MB will take the car back and give you a full refund, at best its a class action suit. In which the cars owners dont benefit only the lawyers.
 

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I've seen people do well intentioned things like lubricating a moving part only to find out later when it fails that the lubrication was actually the cause. You'd think that a moving part would need lubrication, so why not? Well, turns out that the lubricant in this case acts to attract dirt and grit and winds up destroying the part sooner than leaving it dry. My point here is that sometimes a little knowledge and common sense might not actually lead you to the best conclusion. Logically what you cite makes sense, but are you sure it's genuinely an issue? Are you sure that MB hasn't designed this engine to operate just fine with a certain amount of fuel dilution?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
... So basically MB is taking the position "if it ain't broke they can't fix it". ....
Sounds more to me like "if we deny there is a problem we will not have to deal with it."

... the suspected excessive oil dilution. ...
No "suspected" about it to me. And with all due respect, this is the type of attitude that only enables MB to grease people up and stick it to them.

... In the end MB is not going to do anything about it. ...
I am not surprised with their tact, but hey, we can always hope that MB, or any world-wide leader of anything, will be an upstanding corporate citizen and do the right thing.

... it might be advisable to trade the car for something you can be comfortable with ...
Already been looking. I know the moderators here would be happy if I did.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Its probably best to get rid of the car and take your money elsewhere, big corporations just don't care. You can take to social media, call local news? maybe.

I really doubt MB will take the car back and give you a full refund, at best its a class action suit. In which the cars owners dont benefit only the lawyers.
As I said, I am already looking. The problem is that almost every manufacturer has decided to use this apparently seriously flawed technology in their smaller engines to satisfy the regulators and a gullible public. (As the old saying goes, there is no replacement for displacement. I only wish I could not care and subscribe to another saying, ignorance is bliss.)

The lemon law in may state would only cost me about $3,000 right now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
... are you sure it's genuinely an issue? Are you sure that MB hasn't designed this engine to operate just fine with a certain amount of fuel dilution?
Moderate fuel dilution is not a major problem ... massive fuel dilution is. Obviously you have chosen to do no research the topic. When I have a bit more time, I will track down a few learned writings and link to them for your benefit.
 

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...The problem is that almost every manufacturer has decided to use this apparently seriously flawed technology in their smaller engines to satisfy the regulators and a gullible public...
...Obviously you have chosen to do no research the topic. When I have a bit more time, I will track down a few learned writings and link to them for your benefit.
Sure, link away, but you also say that every manufacturer has the same issue, so what are we supposed to do? Go back to driving 70's vintage muscle cars?
If you're uncovering a massive conspiracy involving nearly every automaker, go for it! Shout it from the mountaintop! Call your congressman, get 60 Minutes on the phone! ...but you could also just be discovering one of the common limitations of the small displacement engine that is designed in and accounted for.
 

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As I said, I am already looking. The problem is that almost every manufacturer has decided to use this apparently seriously flawed technology in their smaller engines...The lemon law in may state would only cost me about $3,000 right now.
Unfortunately the lemon law won't apply. Regardless of your state you'll just have to accept normal depreciation when you trade the car. Lemon law would require an actual mechanical problem with the car, not an anticipated failure in the future. Just trade it and start over, you'll be happier. And for heavens sake don't do an oil analysis and make yourself crazy, just drive the new car and enjoy it whatever it is!


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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Unfortunately the lemon law won't apply. ... Lemon law would require an actual mechanical problem with the car, ...
Do you not think that IF an engine is operating outside of its' engineering design parameters that there is an "actual mechanical problem"? Shouldn't require much thought to answer that.

The problem is discovering MB's design parameters/specifications for fuel dilution levels. I requested that my dealership acquire those specs from MB. MB's response to the dealership was “we cannot provide any engineering or proprietary information to the public.” If MB has nothing to hide, why didn't they provide this basic, simple information? This is even more reason for me to be suspect of the veracity of anything coming from MB on this topic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
As I stated before....you should read this paper regarding your concern...
Just got it and read it thoroughly and I must say it only served to reinforce my beliefs and contentions. Wish you had saved me $26 and just said "hey, you have a pretty good grip on this," or did I miss something? I will certainly read it again to see for myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
A note to all of those people who keep saying to me in my various fuel dilution posts things such as "don't obsess," "don't do oil analysis," "just enjoy your car," "get another car" and similar things, let me remind you that I am posting in the "Engine and Technical Discussion" section of the forum, not the "Prestige, Culture and Lifestyle" section.

For those of you who bought an MB for the prestige, culture and lifestyle aspects, maybe this is not the appropriate section in which you should be posting because your comments have absolutely nothing to do with anything technical or engine related. I bought a MB because I thought I was getting a quality engineered vehicle from a reputable world-wide manufacturer who would support their so-called premium product. Wow, was I ever wrong!

Maybe this technical stuff is over your head, I don't know. But all of these non-technical, ill-informed comments really insults my intelligence and on a certain level offends me. It seems like you are trying to cram the prestige, culture and lifestyle dogma down my throat. But go ahead and say bad things about me if you like. I have tough skin and I can take. I get insulted and offended on a regular basis. I would dish it back to you but the moderators have warned me. (Obviously I am on a different end of the spectrum than everyone else. And that is fine by me. I wouldn't be anywhere else. But it is their forum and I must abide by their subjectivity.)

My overall point is that somebody, obviously not the people to whom this is directed, may find something beneficial in my postings and ensuing on-topic discussion. That is why I do it. If you don't care about the technical aspects of your car or have any desire to properly maintain it, that is your prerogative, just please don't subject people who are interested or me to your thread crapping.
 

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Just got it and read it thoroughly and I must say it only served to reinforce my beliefs and contentions. Wish you had saved me $26 and just said "hey, you have a pretty good grip on this," or did I miss something? I will certainly read it again to see for myself.
My point exactly, I don't think I was having you waste $26.00 but providing a published paper on the subject from a distinguished engineering association to provide a technical knowledge base to back your claim and/or concern....why go into a battle with a pop gun.

Do I think Mercedes will do anything for you or any of the rest of us who express concerns....probably not until years down the road when they discover that there really is an underlying issue that rears its ugly head and then they will make changes based on technology advancements and the consumer if they wish to keep using the vehicle or want to get some residual value from whats left will do the repair on their own dime....seems no matter the auto manufacturer this happens over and over and over again.....
 

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One reason for oil dilution is frequent, short-distance trips. Fuel commonly gets into the oil before the engine is up to proper operating temperatures, which are indicated by the blue temperature read-outs turning white, after driving usually, at least 20 minutes. After that, the valve guides will have expanded enough to seal the system properly. That is why you should never accelerate hard, before the engine/oil/coolant is up to proper operating temperatures. After that time period, the engine must be run long enough for the fuel that's leaked into the oil to evaporate. That is why it's important to take the car on an extended trip, at least a one hour drive, after reaching the proper operating temperature, periodically.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
My point exactly, I don't think I was having you waste $26.00 but providing a published paper on the subject from a distinguished engineering association to provide a technical knowledge base to back your claim and/or concern....why go into a battle with a pop gun.
...
Of course it will be beneficial and certainly I will rely on it in my plight. Good find. Appreciate you sharing it. Too bad they didn't determine that massive fuel dilution was not a problem.
 

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Please remind me, is this problem with the M270 engine or the M133?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
... That is why it's important to take the car on an extended trip, at least a one hour drive, after reaching the proper operating temperature, periodically.
Unfortunately even periodic extended use doesn't completely evaporate all the accumulated fuel, at least in the engine in my car. Referring back to my analyses, test #1 was made immediately after a 250 mile one-way trip and showed 2.2% dilution, test #7 was made immediately after a 100 mile each way trip (200 mi. total w/apx. one hour stop in between) and showed 2.7% dilution, and test #8 was made after the exact trip as on #7 and showed >5% dilution.

As I think I suggested in some earlier musings, extended use after each cold start can help prevent dilution but periodic extended use is not a reliable remedial effort for massive dilution. And unfortunately extended use after each cold start is not a feasible operating parameter for some, including me. I could live with the 2.2% or 2.7% but the greater than 5% .....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Please remind me, is this problem with the M270 engine or the M133?
Mine is the M270 but I would bet my last dollar that under the right circumstances it will happen to the M133 as well. This phenomenon is not isolated to any one specific engine.
 
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